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the fiscal cliff? >> absolutely. again, there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve the rates going up on the top 2%. >> "the new york times" reports that senior republican leadership aides are contemplating a fall-back position on a fiscal deal. they could foresee taking up and passing legislation this month to extend the tax cuts for the middle class and then resume the bitter fight over spending and taxes as the nation approaches the next hard deadline. it's statutory borrowingรง limi which could be reached in late january or february. speaking to a business roundtable, president obama responded to that idea this way. >> if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again, as part of a budget negotiation, which by the way we have never done in our history until we did this it last year, i will not play that game. >> john boehner and house republican leadership met with small business owners today to talk about the fiscal cliff, raising tax rates on the richest americans for them is stil
the fiscal cliff. >> if you read though, the boehner proposal carefully, no tax rate increases, which we know is a nonstarter for the president. so where does that leave us? john avlon is here to help us read through the lines of the deal, also crunch some of those numbers. first, we're talking about the $800 billion figure. that's in the letter that john boehner wrote to the president. break that down for us. >> that's right. there is no numbers breaking that down. it's a where's the beef question. bumper sticker, we have the numbers but no details. boehner's aides will say that's where the negotiations come in. the devil's in the details. they'll say look, to achieve these revenue increases by closing deductions and loopholes. in the letter boehner sent, he says they may be able to lower some rates based on comments made by erskine bowles. >> i think for folks especially we're left to wonder. some analysis shows it's possible. >> i think for folks especially the middle class, they're trying to figure out the math. those deductions and loopholes, do they actually dig into the middle class? >
a fiscal cliff. at that rate, talks are going slow. the u.s. seems poised to go over the edge. wendell goler live at the white house. okay, does everyone have like the calendar in front of them realizing what the date actually is? >> it's a high stakes poker game. each side waiting for the other to show its cards. the white house demanding republicans say how much they're willing to raise taxes and republicans demanding the white house list the spending cuts. democrats are willing to accept. there is, as you say, less than month before the deadline and realistically, there may be less time than that given the need for congress to actually write legislation. house speaker john boehner said on fox news sunday, right now they've got nothing to start with. >> i would say we're nowhere, period. we're nowhere. we've put a serious offer on the table by putting revenues up there to try to get this question resolved. but the white house has responded with virtually nothing. they've actually asked for more revenue than they've been asking for the whole entire time. >> the president campaigned on
's just silly now. you've got to be for a tax rate increase or we will go over this fiscal cliff. >> no, you don't. you could raise from a carbon tax of $20 a ton, which will deal with, we are having the biggest record carbon levels. you could raise -- at 4% a year over the next ten year, twice as much as you could from allowing the bush tax rates to lapse. why the income tax system is overburdened in the united states. we use it too much. we should be looking at other taxes. we can't do it in 29 days. why are we doing it in 29 days? >> but the president ran on raises taxes, right? if you look at the polls. 60% of people support raising taxes on people who make over $250,000 a year. how much of a problem is it, david, if the republicans you know, tom coburn said he does not want to raise that tax number. >> the president ran on his first term on opposing a health care mandate. presidents change their minds. the idea that you would do a revenue measure with an eye to basically doing something punitive, when there are much more important policy goals you can achieve and when it's not goin
there will be no deal to avert the so-called fiscal cliff without the rich paying a higher tax rate. got it? higher rate. in this interview on bloomberg tv, he made it. let's listen. >> the issue right now that's relevant is the acknowledgment that if we're going to raise revenues that are sufficient to balance with the very tough cuts that we've already made and the further reforms in entitlements that i'm prepared to make, that we're going to have to see the rates on the top 2% go up, and we're not going to be able to get a deal without it. >> there you heard it again, top rates have to go up, and rates. and some republicans are saying that the gop will ultimately say uncle. conservative columnist byron york, a very smart guy, wrote, quote, republicans will cave on the question of raising the tax rate for the highest income americans. the only question is whether they do so before or after the government goes over the so-called fiscal cliff. "new york times" columnist david brooks describes it this way. republicans will be raising middle class taxes in order to serve the rich. shafting sam's club to b
. the reason? the fiscal cliff. if we go off the cliff, tax rates and dividends could more than triple or nearly triple from 15% to 43.4%. companies are racing to beat that tax hike by paying dividends before december 31st. arison is getting a potential tax savings up to $25 million. and larry ellison is getting savings of $56 million. tom frist will get more than $350 million from the company's dividend saving potential $100 million. and bain capital will get a piece of that and king of dividends is sheldon adelson. his tax savings on the dividend alone could be more than $340 million. all shareholders benefit from dividends and many of the ceos and owners recuse themselves from the dividend votes but these companies tend to have higher insider ownership. average inside ownership for dividend payers is around 27%. the average for the market as a whole around 7%. it all shows that if you can take next year's income today, you can also beat the tax man. simon? >> i mean, the question remains the degree to which you are harming the businesses by forcing cash out of them now. there are co
to avoid the fiscal cliff over republicans. the same poll gave president obama his highest approval rating in three years, with 53% support. in the next hour and a half, president obama will continue the great reasonableness tour of 2012. visiting a middle class family in northern virginia with the aim of putting more pressure on congress to extend middle income tax cuts. majority leader harry reid did his part for the cause on the senate floor today. >> so it's apparent how this will end. the only question is, when will it end? it's how long will speaker boehner make middle class families wait for relief and how long will he force the financial markets to wait for uncertainty. >> joining the panel now, the sage of capitol hill, the seasonally elegant luke russert. >> thank you so much for having me. >> you get a special intro when you arrive on set a little late. thrilled to have you here, with ongoing deliberation on capitol hill, you are the eyes. >> eyes and ears hopefully. yet i'm here, congress is recessed this week. >> always a reason, my friend. the fact that tim geithner came out
to go off the fiscal cliff? >> absolutely. if there is no agreement that doesn't involve rates going up. >> gretchen: is that what the discussion is about? if you're watching the main stream media, it's about tax, tax, tax, tax. why are we taxing so much? because we really do have a spending problem. >> steve: or a deep hole. >> brian: i thought it was interesting. does geithner ever speak and make you feel better? all he does is -- i have a sense that it's something terrible is about to happen. having said that and this communication ability aside, i'm stunned to see him playing politics. he's flat out playing politics. he added if the president doesn't get his own way and get the power action undependentsed power to raise the debt limit and take it away from congress, that's also a nonstarter. since when is getting into that and saying if we don't raise taxes on the top 2%, we're never going to have a deal. really? doesn't he know the math? we all know the math. this is like throwing a nickel into the ocean. $85 billion on an annual deficit that's over a trillion dollars in debt. he's
prepared to go over the fiscal cliff. >> we face no prospect of agreement that doesn't involve the rates going up on the top two percent. >> brian: he also said he believes that the president needs to get control of the debt limit. that is a nonstarter. there is no way to get congress to give up control of debt limit. >> steve: republicans are saying let's cave and surrender on the tax issue. but coming up in 2013 we have leverage over the debt limit. remember the president of the united states his personal approval ratings went in the toilet. >> brian: as is the congress. >> steve: the congress didn't have as far to because they were close to the floor anyway. republicans say let's have leverage next time and the president said let's take that off of the table and from now on the president doesn't have to negotiate from congress. congress doesn't like that one bit. >> gretchen: usually when you are holding the cards in the negotiation you don't have to budge. that's the position the president and time geithner feel. they feel they hold the cards and they won the election and they believ
in their heels with no move to avoid the fiscal cliff. fiscal cliff negotiations have been at a stand still since monday when republicans proposed raising revenue by closing tax loopholes not by raising rates own the wealthy as the president has demanded. >> we're not insisting on rates out of spite but rather because we need to raise a certain amount of revenue. >> we can't keep borrowing mown and raising taxes and expect the problem to go away. >> with no solution in sight the white house budget is now ordering the pentagon and other an an jencies to finalize their plan to avoid massive spending cuts. >> secretary of state clinton says nato's decision missiles to turkey sends a clear message that tour ski is backed by its allies. the big concern remains an increasely desperate assad regime will turn to chemical weapons as rebel fighting rages on. the u.s. and its partners are looking to apply additional pressure on at a conference next week. the regime insists they would not use weapons against its people. >> a natural gas tanker arrived in japan today becoming the first vessel to successfully
will push back on president obama's demand for tax hikes on the rich when it comes to the fiscal cliff. but treasury secretary timothy geithner says the white house will not give in. >> no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest americans. remember it's only 2%. >> geithner adds the obama administration is, quote, absolutely prepared to go off the cliff, if necessary. joining me now is van jones, cnn contributor and former obama administration official. good morning. >> god morning to you. >> so, van, i guess my first question that's eatsy for geithner to say, we're perfectly willing to go off the fiscal cliff. that means a tax hike on middle class americans and maybe some of them are thinking this morning i'm not really so happy geithner said that. >> it might have been inartful for him to say it the way he said it. i think he is making a very important point, which is that the american people did vote. they voted for the one thing the president said very clearly, which is that tax rates would go up on the wealthiest. it's an
up on the wealthiest americans, there will be no deal to avert going over the fiscal cliff. >> we're going to have to see the rates on the top 2% go up. and we're not going to be able to get a deal without it. >> reporter: house republicans are adamant, no tax rate increases. >> we're willing to put revenues on the table. revenues that come from closing loopholes, getting rid of special interest deductions and not raising rates. >> reporter: but what the republicans are offering sounds a lot like what the president wanted during last year's budget showdown. >> give us $1.2 trillion in additional revenues, which could be accomplished without hiking tax rates by eliminating loopholes, eliminating some deductions. >> reporter: today, however, the president says those moves will not be enough. and the latest pew poll shows a lot of public pessimism. with 49% of the public saying they do not expect a deal to be struck by the deadline. 40%, a little more optimistic. george? >> sure looks like this will go right to the deadline. jake, thanks very much. >>> george, now, we're going to get
the numbers and found if the nation goes over the fiscal cliff, high income californians would beat out new yorkers and hawaiians for the potential highest tax rate at nearly 52%. >>> forbes is out with the 2012 most powerful people list. president obama held on to the top spot for a second year. the pope climbed two notches from last year. he is in fifth place. facebook's ceo mark zuckerburg went to number 25. former president clinton held on to number 50. and tonight be sure to watch brian williams sit down with tim cook. by the way, he's number 35 on the forbes list. >> finally, no, this is no joke. pizza hut in canada sent more than 100 bottles of pizza cented perfume to facebook fans. the fragrance boasts freshly baked hand tossed dough. >>> some optimistic news in the fight against breast cancer. women who took the common estrogen blocking drug tamoxofin cut the chance of getting breast cancer in half. >>> coming up, corey booker lives on food stamps. the nfl steps in with a million dollars for jovan belcher's orphan daughter and high resolution images of your planet earth from space.
over the fiscal cliff, what do you have to lose, the rates are going to go up. i don't think it makes any difference two tim geithner says. >> it is so widely held by so many who want to play the stock market, let's say, beyond just the capital gains, whether it's in taxable account organization not and it also has the psychological impact that this is the one that i'm going to get out of because i'm afraid of what's coming in general? >> this is the stock, yes, it's cheap, now once it goes down, we have a million reasons, well, it's a nokia phone, well, it's china. ipad miniis available. this is a stock that's so widely owned. it reminds me of sirius satellite. every doctor, every dentist owns apple. they don't know the price per share, they just know it is the proxy for the market. >> they just accelerated dividends. but i think we're talking now 150 companies in some fashion have accelerated or put forward a special dividend. you put forward a special market share, china is 76, with the market share at least. >> is it a disappointment that apple did not pay a special dividend? is t
, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again, there is no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. >> and that is the important phrase there, prepared to go off the cliff if there is no agreement on raising those rates. we're going to get to that in a minute. utah republican senator orrin hatch fired back and said, quote this, is one of the most stunning and irresponsible statements i've heard in some time. the american people want us to find a reasonable path forward not to rattle our sabers and play this dangerous game. of course, both sides are playing games. they are rattling their sabers. house members streamed out of the capitol and headed out of town wednesday after canceling today's session. they insist nothing will get done until the president makes a counteroffer to what they say is their full fledged proposal for monday. >> the revenues we're putting on the table are going to come from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes, and have the same peop
cliff, to the democrats. here is what they considering, not only letting the top rate rise or finding an equal amount of taxes in other areas that would be the same effect. they considering a doomsday plan where house republicans would vote "present" on a bill that only extends the middle class tax cuts escaping blame for tax hikes on the 2 percent and wall street bigwigs are throwing in the towel and now calling the president's plan to hike taxes to the tune of $2.16 trillion double what originally called, credible. pore like incredible if you ask my next guests who are livid. michelle, what happened? >>guest: well, there is a reason why for some long the republicans are nicknamed the stupid party and the democrats are the evil party. there have been so many times the narrative that has been repeated over and over again where the republicans capitulate and rollover. what voters who did vote for house republicans to maintain their majority need to ask, and ask very loudly, what part of the mandate you did get this past november said rollover? or said give up? or said surrender? screw
such barbed words and occurred before treasury secretary tim geithner laid down this harsh fiscal cliff marker. >> if the administration, are they prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> absolutely. no prospect or agreement that doesn't involve those rates going on on the top 2%. remember, only 2%. >> reporter: that danger? not enough to keep congress in session. it's all right quit for the week. most lawmakers assume correctly there are bit players until there's a deal. that looks more complicated until mr. obama demanded republicans raise the debt ceiling this month without any spending cut strings attached. >> if congress in any way suggests they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes, and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation, i will not play that game. because we've got to break that habit before it starts. >> reporter: the president sees the fiscal cliff showdown as an opportunity to break that linkage for good. republicans say they will not increase the debt ceiling now $16 trillion and due to expire in f
prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. again, there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest americans -- remember, it's only 2%. the size of the problem in some sense is so large, it can't be solved without rates going up as part of that. again, i think there's broad recognition of that reality now. >> one fallback option republicans are reportedly considering is to accept tax cuts for the middle class, allow rates to go up for the wealthiest, and then start the fight over again during debt limit talks early next year. yesterday at a business roundtable of ceos, president obama took a hard line, warning his opponents not to consider this strategy. >> if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to dell creting votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation, which, by the way, we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game. >> well, i wonder, the president's saying, steve, that, you know what, we can
that would cease paychecks and health benefits for all members of congress and the president until the fiscal cliff is avoided. unlikely, but a reflection of voter frustration as both sides dig in. the white house demanding higher tax rates for the top two tax brackets and republicans refusing. after refusing the proposal last week, house republicans offered an outline for $2.2 trillion in deficit reduction mostly through spending cuts, and while president obama would not answer questions about the counterproposal -- >> no deal better than a bad deal, sir? >> thank you. >> reporter: -- a senior white house official assailed it as a step backwards saying if republicans do not agree to some higher rates for wealthier taxpayers, the nation will go over the cliff and the american people will hold the republicans responsible. wall street remains optimistic a deal will be struck, so the lack of progress has not yet resulted in a market plunge, but some economists estimate that because of the uncertainty posed by the fiscal cliff, at least 200,000 fewer jobs have been created this year. and, diane,
of coffee this morning. starbucks ceo has sobering advice to offer on the looming fiscal cliff, that the consequences will be far worse than last year's debt ceiling fight when the u.s. credit rating was downgraded for the first time ever. his message to lawmakers, now is not the time to play politics. it's about doing right by the american people. >> i think if people would get in the room and leave their ego behind, and not be so skewed towards the party but be so sensitive to the lens of the american people, we will have an agreement. >> poppy harlow is joining us with more. we've been talking about how this will affect us. schultz says this goes way beyond our boarders. >> it's global. something that stuck with me talking to him about this, the people who need a deal most will be hurt the most. here's why. >> this single issue has a seismic affect on the rest of the world, that we have never been as connected and the domino effect of a bad outcome here will have significant negative consequences, domestically and around the world, not the least of which will be the level --
fall off the fiscal cliff, dividends will be taxed at ordinary income rates so your rate on your investments is going to go up depending on your tax bracket, that means 15%, 28%, 31%, 36% or 39.6%. so the rate on your investment income could be more than double what it is right now for middle and high income earners. other companies that have paid out their dividends early, walmart, costco, dillard's -- >> so they are preparing for this? >> oh, yes. they're getting the money out early so their investors don't pay higher taxes on it. >> what is the one thing we need to know about our money today? >> ho, ho, ho, december has been the best month for stocks over the past 30 years. december has been the santa claus rally they call it. when investors square their portfolios, they close out their positions, could the fiscal cliff talks in washington kill santa claus? another reason to be mad at your policymakers. december should be a good month. it historically is. >> all right, thank you. 27 minutes past the hour. every time you send a text message it could soon be recorded. it could a
american. >> senator rubio weighing in on the fiscal cliff debate and the idea of raising tax rates for the wealthy saying we need to make poor people richer, not rich people poorer. soledad. >> that's the kind of thinking that will get you votes, right? >> all right. thanks, zoraida. >> new york city police could be close to charging a suspect in that fatal subway push. they say a man is now being questioned and has implicated himself in this case. a front page "new york post" photo has become the source of a lot of controversy. it shows the victim desperately trying to climb up from the tracks as the train approaches. this morning we're hearing that the photographer has said some things in his own defense. cnn's mary snow has more on this report. >> [ bleep ] alone. take your [ bleep ] over there. >> reporter: why exactly these men were fighting is unclear. but moments after this video obtained by the new york police was record 58-year-old ki-suck han whose face is obscured, was pushed on to the tracks, police say, by the man yelling at him. subway barreling through the station ki
approach this fiscal cliff and the president gets his way. he is digging in his heels on higher tax rates on upper income earners. that will be a little bit more from those people. >> steve: i don't know if you were listening, i know you were in the hall, but a moment ago i mentioned the fact that in investors business daily today, they talk about the president is pushing to get things toward the bill clinton tax rate. he loves the bill clinton era, how about returning to bill clinton era spending in proportion? >> wouldn't that be nice? how about return to the bill clinton era on capital gains rates? it was bill clinton who pushed it down. now president obama is pushing it way up. yet it would be nice to return to the basis of bill clinton, but that's not what we're doing. we're taking a little bit more here, a little bit more there, a little bit more over there. all to pay for all of this wonderful spending that the president wants. >> steve: maybe in four years when hillary runs for president. you have got to figure that's going to happen. >> i wonder what's going to happen to the econ
's the catalyst? a lot of people are worried about fiscal cliff and sort of reluctant to put money to work. why are you so active? >> it's all about appropriate amounts of leverage. you can't borrow a lot, so you have to have the cash to be able to build. when you have a conservative capital structure and you're buying iconic assets in great cities, i think you'll do very well over time. traditionally, that's been proven in real estate. >> we all know it was a very hotly contested presidential election, and of course your dad, donald, has been on our program a lot. he was a big supporter of romney. there were stories going around that you said, dad, pull it back a bit. you don't have to be so negative on the president. is that what happened? >> it was fascinating because this was a widely circulated report that was without fact at all, and not one reporter actually called and asked the question you just did, which is, is that true? no, it wasn't. my father has been a very important part of the dialogue. he's been saying a lot of things that other people, you know, not wanting to be in a space w
's savannah. >>> new movement this morning to try and avoid the fiscal cliff. some republicans are considering abandoning their staunch opposition to higher tax rates according to recent reports. alan simpson was co-chair on the commission of fiscal responsibility. he's a co-founder of fix the debt campaign and joins us now. senator simpson, good morning, it's great to see you. >> great pleasure to be off the witness protection program and come here. but what even more fun, david brubeck used to come to wyoming a great deal. he and his family, lovely people. i did not know he had passed. and to hear that music, it's iconic stuff. anyway. so it's good to sneak in and get made up, try to hide my identity. >> well, it's good to have you here. you say you're in the witness protection program because you've been out there on the issue of how we fix our national deficit. as you well know, we face the fiscal cliff, a series of tax hikes and spending cuts that many people think if they go into effect will put the country into recession. yet we heard the treasury secretary tim geithner say the presiden
a counter proposal on the fiscal cliff. their plan, $2.2 trillion deficit savings over the next decade, but it does not include higher tax rates for the wealthy. the house speaker john boehner calls it a credible plan that deserves serious consideration by the white house. guess what? the white house released a statement tonight saying the plan is nothing new, that it lowers rates for the wealthy and sticks the middle class with the bill. so to borrow a phrase, we're nowhere. period. david walker is president and ceo of comeback america initiative. he's made it his mission to promote fiscal responsibility. he joins us along with cnn political analyst, david gergen. david walker, let me start with you. the house republicans put forward their counter proposal. speaker boehner says it's credible and the white house should consider it. is it credible or is it more of what you have called the irresponsible unethical immoral behavior of all the politicians here in washington? >> i think both sides are now putting things on the table but i think they're confused. what we have to do in the sho
investment bank should do is solve financial problems for people. with things like the fiscal cliff coming up and a radical change in tax rates and possible future growth rates, i just think there are going to be lots of decisions that need to be made. lots of interesting decisions that aren't just m&a. corporate boards need advice on that. i'm optimistic it will be a decent year. >> we hope to visit you during that year. thank you. >> back to you, melissa. >>> news for investors out there. let's send it to mary thompson for a market flash. >> cnbc obtaining a notice that the company is raising margin requirements for apple to 60% from 30% effective at midnight tonight. one thing we want to note is cnbc has spoken to other people on the equity desk. they say they are not planning to follow the raise of margin on requirements for apple. we want to note that core clearing will issue a statement on this later. back to you. >> all right. thank you very much, mary thompson. still ahead, live coverage of president obama's remarks on the fiscal cliff before the business roundtable. can the president
actually maybe wants to go over the fiscal cliff if the republicans do not agree to raising income tax rates even though yesterday they agreed to these deductions and loopholes and getting rid of them, which essentially many people argue, would do somewhat of the same thing. your thoughts? >> right. so there are going to be consequences for syria if they use chemical weapons and the president thinks there is going to be severe consequences for the republicans if, in fact, we go over this precipice and raise your hand if you're tired of this cliche about the fiscal cliff. he thinks look, the republicans will suffer terribly, the country will be thrown into some turmoil, he thinks and he thinks he's the winner either way. it's easy for the president and his team to go out there and posture on this. but both sides are playing this game a little bit. the republicans are doing the same thing. they're play to go their base. they want to make sure that regardless of what ends up happening at the end, if a deal is struck, that they at least have the appearance of sticking to their principles.
ahead, a growing core russ on both sides who insist there's no reason to fear going over the fiscal cliff y if if the cliff exists at all. call them cliff deniers. leading directly to the loss of america's aaa credit rating. listening to them again would be the definition of insanity. john who has a ph.d. in instaneny co-author of "deadline artists." i was in d.c. this week and struck by there is one track going on of negotiations, the track you're seeing on television. not the smoke filled back rooms at this point. they're not there yet. usually i complain about the deals happening and the scenes. there is no behind the scenes and that scares me. >> and it should. look right now we are in the stage of public positional bargaining and both sides making opening bids that the other side dismisses as not serious. but, of course, this is serious. this is a self-inflicted crisis. and washington is playing fiscal with the fiscal cliff. -- playing chicken with the fiscal cliff. this deal will only get done by president obama and john boehner making a deal. they came close in the summer of
. >>> back to our conversation on the so-called fiscal cliff. the debt reducing tax hikes and federal spending cuts coming january 1st unless congress and the president act. so now both sides have offers on the table, the democrats' plan which would focus debt reduction on higher tax rates for the wealthiest 2%. house republicans, they anted up yesterday with a plan to cut the debt through tax code and spending reforms, not through higher tax rates for the wealthy. if there is no agreement, you know the deal, everyone, everyone's taxes go up. representative tom price of georgia joins me now from capitol hill. he is a hard line republican. congressman, good to see you. thanks for coming on. >> yes, thank you so much. good to be with you. >> the republican plan published yesterday, it is note worthry, congressman price, it would raise more money through the tax system this and is a pretty big departure for your republican party. i just want to know, do you support this proposal put forward by the speaker of the house? >> well, this proposal is just part of the overall package. remember,
republicans are not going to have to vote for them to go up. we'll go off the fiscal cliff, down the fiscal slope. yes i think it will happen because it is the one way republicans can, without violating the pledge, and offending the grand inquisitor grover norquist, it's the one way they can let this happen. >> and, in fact, you know, what could happen, you can imagine a scenario where you go off the cliff on taxes, rates go up for everybody, you then vote to restore the rates for the vast majority of taxpayers, 98%, and further it is even conceivable you negotiate down the top rates in the level under bill clinton a little bit by putting in the pot offsetting deductions for credits which would allow republicans to claim some sort of victory as well. that could be a scenario where you have a consensus on the tax run. >> let's run all of this by representative xavier becerra of california. he's joining us now. nice to see you, sir 367 appreciate your time. what is really the white house dismiss kind of out of hand i mean i don't have the exact number of minutes that they had this republican
without the tax rates going back up. >> nobody wants to go over the cliff. that's why the day after the election i tried to speed this process up by making the concession to put revenues on the table. and it is unfortunate that the white house spent three weeks doing basically nothing. >> now, the republican counterproposal that we just heard about still includes those bush era tax cuts staying in place for everybody, which president obama has called a nonstarter. so what if we raised taxes a little bit? still be much lower than what americans paid just a generation ago. in 1980, the wealthiest americans paid a marginal tax rate of 70% of their income to uncle sam. now, tax reform under president reagan reduced that rate to 50% and in 1981, and closer to current levels in 1986. today, president obama wants to let the bush era tax cuts expire for wealthy americans only, taking up their marginal federal tax rate from 36% to 39.6%. we're talking about a 3.6 percentage point uptick for households making more than $250,000 a year, only on every dollar they make above the $250,000 amount.
republicans as getting in the way of a deal and blame republicans more in f the country goes over the fiscal cliff and also they feel like think eve kind of got republicans in a corner because these income tax rates are set to increase in everyone at the end of the year and kind of hold that over their heads. now, at the same time, obviously, the issue here continuing to be tax rates and the white house really wants to deal with that. increase tax rates on the wealthy and then they want to deal with tax reform, entitlement reform later. somehow maybe link them but deal with that later and so they're really drawing this line in the sand as you heard timothy geithner say that the tax rates need to go up for wealthy americans. >> there's a strategy here. so, anna, republican strategist, why aren't republicans offering their own plan in return? isn't that how you negotiate? >> i think first they wanted to see what the president puts on the table. they have seen it. they don't like it. it doesn't have cuts in spending and entitlement reform. they want that. but i think what we're watching right n
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